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	<title>Comments on: Ripley Under Ground, by Patricia Highsmith</title>
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	<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/</link>
	<description>This blogger seems to like every Australian writer but me -- P. Carey</description>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6530</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 03:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Craig:  I may get to Ripley&#039;s Game sooner than June 2012.  I usually read the IMPAC shortlist but was disappointed in this year&#039;s when it was announced this week and will not be doing that this year.  Which means a bit of an opening for titles in May and June and Highsmith certainly does appeal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig:  I may get to Ripley&#8217;s Game sooner than June 2012.  I usually read the IMPAC shortlist but was disappointed in this year&#8217;s when it was announced this week and will not be doing that this year.  Which means a bit of an opening for titles in May and June and Highsmith certainly does appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig D.</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Craig D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 03:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I&#039;ve done it.  &quot;The Cry of the Owl,&quot; &quot;This Sweet Sickness,&quot; &quot;The Tremor of Forgery,&quot; and &quot;Selected Novels and Short Stories&quot; (which includes &quot;Strangers on a Train&quot; and &quot;The Price of Salt&quot;) found their way into my Amazon shopping cart. (My apologies to Jim Thompson. I&#039;ll get to you eventually.) I hope Lethem and everyone else is right about the non-Ripley novels being Highsmith&#039;s best work, but since I never seem to agree with the majority on anything, something tells me Tom&#039;s adventures will remain my favorites. Can any of her other characters possibly be as interesting? We&#039;ll see. I&#039;ll be sure to comment on them when you post about &quot;Ripley&#039;s Game&quot; in June 2012.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve done it.  &#8220;The Cry of the Owl,&#8221; &#8220;This Sweet Sickness,&#8221; &#8220;The Tremor of Forgery,&#8221; and &#8220;Selected Novels and Short Stories&#8221; (which includes &#8220;Strangers on a Train&#8221; and &#8220;The Price of Salt&#8221;) found their way into my Amazon shopping cart. (My apologies to Jim Thompson. I&#8217;ll get to you eventually.) I hope Lethem and everyone else is right about the non-Ripley novels being Highsmith&#8217;s best work, but since I never seem to agree with the majority on anything, something tells me Tom&#8217;s adventures will remain my favorites. Can any of her other characters possibly be as interesting? We&#8217;ll see. I&#8217;ll be sure to comment on them when you post about &#8220;Ripley&#8217;s Game&#8221; in June 2012.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6056</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2011 23:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Craig:  Your post speaks for itself and, since I have only read the first two Ripley novels, I will refrain from commenting since I have nothing to add.  Thank you for those extended thoughts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig:  Your post speaks for itself and, since I have only read the first two Ripley novels, I will refrain from commenting since I have nothing to add.  Thank you for those extended thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig D.</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Craig D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2011 23:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know, I try not to write more than a couple hundred words when I comment on these articles, and I always fail miserably. I&#039;ll at least try not to repeat much of what I&#039;ve already said in my ridiculously long comments on your &quot;Talented Mr. Ripley&quot; article.

I&#039;ll add to something you said in these comments, about the portrayal of Europe viewed through American eyes: it struck me in the books that although Ripley&#039;s opinion of America is low and he chooses to live the privileged life in Europe, he is still distinctly American. I don&#039;t agree with the critics who say that Ripley is Highsmith, but they did have their similarities, and this is one of them. I&#039;ve already mentioned that my favorite Ripley film is &quot;The American Friend&quot; with Dennis Hopper, who a lot of people claim is the worst Ripley. As I said in the other article: &quot;He may wear clothing that Highsmith&#039;s Ripley would despise (a mechanic&#039;s jumpsuit and a cowboy hat), but he nails the character.&quot; I think he&#039;s the only actor who has managed to capture the feeling of Ripley&#039;s distinct &quot;Americanness.&quot;

(The director, Wim Wenders, says on the DVD commentary that Highsmith initially hated the film but changed her mind when she saw it a second time, saying that Hopper had captured the essence of Ripley. I agree with her.)

As for the gay subtext of the novels, perhaps my own homosexuality has informed my point of view, but I didn&#039;t think the subtext was all that strong to begin with, and I think too much is made of Ripley&#039;s sexuality. I added the &quot;Tom Ripley&quot; section to the &quot;Ambiguously Gay&quot; article on TVtropes.com, and I&#039;ll just quote that here:

&gt;&gt; In &quot;The Talented Mr. Ripley,&quot; he claims not to know whether he likes men or women, and jokingly says that he&#039;s going to give up both. In the same book, his obsession with another young man seems borderline sexual, although he ultimately becomes disillusioned with him and kills him to get his money. In later books, Tom is married to a woman, but his sexual attraction to her seems minimal at best. They sleep in separate beds and rarely make love, and he seems to treat her more as a trophy wife than an object of love. In &quot;The Boy Who Followed Ripley,&quot; he&#039;s clearly attracted to the 16-year-old &quot;boy&quot; of the title, but nothing ever comes of it. He rescues the &quot;boy&quot; from kidnappers while dressed in drag, but he seems more amused by this than sexually thrilled. Tom ultimately has little interest in sex of any kind, although he&#039;s clearly attracted to other men occasionally. &lt;&lt;

In short, the subtext is absolutely there -- Highsmith even described Ripley as &quot;a little bit homosexual&quot; in an interview -- but I think anyone reading &quot;The Talented Mr. Ripley&quot; for the gay subtext is going to be disappointed. And if the subtext is dropped in any of the sequels, it&#039;s in &quot;Ripley Under Ground&quot; and &quot;Ripley Under Water,&quot; but I felt that whatever minimal subtext was there in &quot;The Talented Mr. Ripley&quot; is just as prevalent in &quot;Ripley&#039;s Game&quot; and &quot;The Boy Who Followed Ripley.&quot;

Depsite my status as a hardcore fan of the Ripley novels, I still haven&#039;t read anything else from Highsmith, which makes me feel slightly ashamed. Jonathan Lethem, whose opinion I can usually trust, wrote that &quot;Highsmith&#039;s greatest work is in the non-Ripley novels&quot; and he cited &quot;The Cry of the Owl,&quot; &quot;The Blunderer,&quot; &quot;This Sweet Sickness,&quot; &quot;The Tremor of Forgery,&quot; &quot;Deep Water,&quot; and &quot;A Dog&#039;s Ransom&quot; as her best work. I suppose I&#039;ll get to at least some these books eventually, but I&#039;ve got a serious problem reconciling the number of books I want to read with the time and money I have.

As I said in the other article, my opinions of the individual Ripley novels changed slightly when I read them a second time. &quot;The Talented Mr. Ripley&quot; was my favorite the first time, but &quot;Ripley&#039;s Game&quot; is now my favorite. Who knows how I&#039;ll feel when I read them a third time? Regardless, you&#039;re in for a treat with the third book; even when it wasn&#039;t my favorite, I still felt it was better than &quot;Ripley Under Ground.&quot; It&#039;s downhill from there, unfortunately, although &quot;The Boy Who Followed Ripley&quot; and &quot;Ripley Under Water&quot; certainly have their moments. To make a good film based on those two books, however, I think a screenwriter would have to combine them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I try not to write more than a couple hundred words when I comment on these articles, and I always fail miserably. I&#8217;ll at least try not to repeat much of what I&#8217;ve already said in my ridiculously long comments on your &#8220;Talented Mr. Ripley&#8221; article.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll add to something you said in these comments, about the portrayal of Europe viewed through American eyes: it struck me in the books that although Ripley&#8217;s opinion of America is low and he chooses to live the privileged life in Europe, he is still distinctly American. I don&#8217;t agree with the critics who say that Ripley is Highsmith, but they did have their similarities, and this is one of them. I&#8217;ve already mentioned that my favorite Ripley film is &#8220;The American Friend&#8221; with Dennis Hopper, who a lot of people claim is the worst Ripley. As I said in the other article: &#8220;He may wear clothing that Highsmith&#8217;s Ripley would despise (a mechanic&#8217;s jumpsuit and a cowboy hat), but he nails the character.&#8221; I think he&#8217;s the only actor who has managed to capture the feeling of Ripley&#8217;s distinct &#8220;Americanness.&#8221;</p>
<p>(The director, Wim Wenders, says on the DVD commentary that Highsmith initially hated the film but changed her mind when she saw it a second time, saying that Hopper had captured the essence of Ripley. I agree with her.)</p>
<p>As for the gay subtext of the novels, perhaps my own homosexuality has informed my point of view, but I didn&#8217;t think the subtext was all that strong to begin with, and I think too much is made of Ripley&#8217;s sexuality. I added the &#8220;Tom Ripley&#8221; section to the &#8220;Ambiguously Gay&#8221; article on TVtropes.com, and I&#8217;ll just quote that here:</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; In &#8220;The Talented Mr. Ripley,&#8221; he claims not to know whether he likes men or women, and jokingly says that he&#8217;s going to give up both. In the same book, his obsession with another young man seems borderline sexual, although he ultimately becomes disillusioned with him and kills him to get his money. In later books, Tom is married to a woman, but his sexual attraction to her seems minimal at best. They sleep in separate beds and rarely make love, and he seems to treat her more as a trophy wife than an object of love. In &#8220;The Boy Who Followed Ripley,&#8221; he&#8217;s clearly attracted to the 16-year-old &#8220;boy&#8221; of the title, but nothing ever comes of it. He rescues the &#8220;boy&#8221; from kidnappers while dressed in drag, but he seems more amused by this than sexually thrilled. Tom ultimately has little interest in sex of any kind, although he&#8217;s clearly attracted to other men occasionally. &lt;&lt;</p>
<p>In short, the subtext is absolutely there &#8212; Highsmith even described Ripley as &quot;a little bit homosexual&quot; in an interview &#8212; but I think anyone reading &quot;The Talented Mr. Ripley&quot; for the gay subtext is going to be disappointed. And if the subtext is dropped in any of the sequels, it&#039;s in &quot;Ripley Under Ground&quot; and &quot;Ripley Under Water,&quot; but I felt that whatever minimal subtext was there in &quot;The Talented Mr. Ripley&quot; is just as prevalent in &quot;Ripley&#039;s Game&quot; and &quot;The Boy Who Followed Ripley.&quot;</p>
<p>Depsite my status as a hardcore fan of the Ripley novels, I still haven&#039;t read anything else from Highsmith, which makes me feel slightly ashamed. Jonathan Lethem, whose opinion I can usually trust, wrote that &quot;Highsmith&#039;s greatest work is in the non-Ripley novels&quot; and he cited &quot;The Cry of the Owl,&quot; &quot;The Blunderer,&quot; &quot;This Sweet Sickness,&quot; &quot;The Tremor of Forgery,&quot; &quot;Deep Water,&quot; and &quot;A Dog&#039;s Ransom&quot; as her best work. I suppose I&#039;ll get to at least some these books eventually, but I&#039;ve got a serious problem reconciling the number of books I want to read with the time and money I have.</p>
<p>As I said in the other article, my opinions of the individual Ripley novels changed slightly when I read them a second time. &quot;The Talented Mr. Ripley&quot; was my favorite the first time, but &quot;Ripley&#039;s Game&quot; is now my favorite. Who knows how I&#039;ll feel when I read them a third time? Regardless, you&#039;re in for a treat with the third book; even when it wasn&#039;t my favorite, I still felt it was better than &quot;Ripley Under Ground.&quot; It&#039;s downhill from there, unfortunately, although &quot;The Boy Who Followed Ripley&quot; and &quot;Ripley Under Water&quot; certainly have their moments. To make a good film based on those two books, however, I think a screenwriter would have to combine them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kerry</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6006</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for reminding me of that there are both American and European versions of &lt;i&gt;The Talented Mr. Ripley&lt;/i&gt; film.  We also enjoy comparing the book with the European film with the American film, when things work out.  I think this will be one of those for us.  Thanks!

I hope to get to &lt;i&gt;The Talented Mr. Ripley&lt;/i&gt; sooner rather than later, but have no plans to speed through her oeuvre.  &quot;Some years from now...&quot;:  exactly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for reminding me of that there are both American and European versions of <i>The Talented Mr. Ripley</i> film.  We also enjoy comparing the book with the European film with the American film, when things work out.  I think this will be one of those for us.  Thanks!</p>
<p>I hope to get to <i>The Talented Mr. Ripley</i> sooner rather than later, but have no plans to speed through her oeuvre.  &#8220;Some years from now&#8230;&#8221;:  exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Cairnduff</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6004</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Cairnduff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t know those Parks were published under another name. Interesting. I can see why. His usual stuff is fairly serious whereas those two are comic crime. I suppose it&#039;s like Julian Barnes&#039; excellent crime trilogy which was also written under a pseudonym (ironically I prefer Barnes as a crime writer to his more literary work).

Chandler and Hammett always call for revisiting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know those Parks were published under another name. Interesting. I can see why. His usual stuff is fairly serious whereas those two are comic crime. I suppose it&#8217;s like Julian Barnes&#8217; excellent crime trilogy which was also written under a pseudonym (ironically I prefer Barnes as a crime writer to his more literary work).</p>
<p>Chandler and Hammett always call for revisiting.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6003</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Max:  I didn&#039;t find this novel great, but then I wasn&#039;t looking for great when I picked it up.  I would give it high marks for straight enjoyment and equally good grades for what I will call &quot;chuckles generated by observation, usually catty.&quot;  I&#039;d agree that Ripley was a different character in this one, but I chose to regard that as him growing into amoral maturity.  

I have read a couple of Tim Parks (&lt;em&gt; Dreams of Rivers and Seas&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;Europa&lt;/em&gt;) and enjoyed them -- he fits another one of my sub-categories, English authors writing from Italy.  I&#039;ll keep the two you recommend in mind (I see they were published under a pseudonym) but warn that it might be a while before I get to them.  I don&#039;t visit the genre that often and with more Highsmith on the agenda, together with Andrea Camilleri&#039;s Montalbano books (Guy Savage recommended the DVDs and we loved them, so I&#039;m going to try the books), it is already crowded.  Not to mention, that Chandler and Hammett do call for the occasional revisit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max:  I didn&#8217;t find this novel great, but then I wasn&#8217;t looking for great when I picked it up.  I would give it high marks for straight enjoyment and equally good grades for what I will call &#8220;chuckles generated by observation, usually catty.&#8221;  I&#8217;d agree that Ripley was a different character in this one, but I chose to regard that as him growing into amoral maturity.  </p>
<p>I have read a couple of Tim Parks (<em> Dreams of Rivers and Seas</em> and <em>Europa</em>) and enjoyed them &#8212; he fits another one of my sub-categories, English authors writing from Italy.  I&#8217;ll keep the two you recommend in mind (I see they were published under a pseudonym) but warn that it might be a while before I get to them.  I don&#8217;t visit the genre that often and with more Highsmith on the agenda, together with Andrea Camilleri&#8217;s Montalbano books (Guy Savage recommended the DVDs and we loved them, so I&#8217;m going to try the books), it is already crowded.  Not to mention, that Chandler and Hammett do call for the occasional revisit.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Cairnduff</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-6000</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Cairnduff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-6000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad you enjoyed it Kevin.

For me the sequels to The Talented Mr. Ripley were solid novels but nothing great. The gay subtext to the original seemed just entirely dropped which made the character quite different and generally he just seems more accomplished. In the original he&#039;s a pathetic character driven to kill from inadequacy. In the sequels he&#039;s a cool sociopath who kills to protect a glamorous lifestyle. For me it was almost a change of genre (almost, it isn&#039;t - it&#039;s more a change of tone).

That said, I did enjoy them. I just didn&#039;t find them that special and while I might reread Talented I wouldn&#039;t personally reread the sequels.

If you like these though you might want to check out Cara Massimina and it&#039;s sequel Mimi&#039;s Ghost both by Tim Parks which are similar in theme but which aim more for comedy than suspense. I don&#039;t think either is Parks&#039; best, but they&#039;re both fun reads and Parks is a talented writer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you enjoyed it Kevin.</p>
<p>For me the sequels to The Talented Mr. Ripley were solid novels but nothing great. The gay subtext to the original seemed just entirely dropped which made the character quite different and generally he just seems more accomplished. In the original he&#8217;s a pathetic character driven to kill from inadequacy. In the sequels he&#8217;s a cool sociopath who kills to protect a glamorous lifestyle. For me it was almost a change of genre (almost, it isn&#8217;t &#8211; it&#8217;s more a change of tone).</p>
<p>That said, I did enjoy them. I just didn&#8217;t find them that special and while I might reread Talented I wouldn&#8217;t personally reread the sequels.</p>
<p>If you like these though you might want to check out Cara Massimina and it&#8217;s sequel Mimi&#8217;s Ghost both by Tim Parks which are similar in theme but which aim more for comedy than suspense. I don&#8217;t think either is Parks&#8217; best, but they&#8217;re both fun reads and Parks is a talented writer.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-5998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-5998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kerry:  I agree with the thought about interesection of tastes -- not just in the reading, but with Highsmith also the viewing.  We have DVDs of both the American and European versions of &lt;em&gt;The Talented Mr. Ripley&lt;/em&gt; (the latter is titled &lt;em&gt;Purple Noon&lt;/em&gt;) and enjoyed them both.  A number of her other works have also been filmed (as Guy Savage indicates) and I will be checking them out once I have read the books, although as I noted in my comment to Kim that may be a few years down the road.

I&#039;ll confess that I do love it when I encounter an author that I know I will be still exploring some years from now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kerry:  I agree with the thought about interesection of tastes &#8212; not just in the reading, but with Highsmith also the viewing.  We have DVDs of both the American and European versions of <em>The Talented Mr. Ripley</em> (the latter is titled <em>Purple Noon</em>) and enjoyed them both.  A number of her other works have also been filmed (as Guy Savage indicates) and I will be checking them out once I have read the books, although as I noted in my comment to Kim that may be a few years down the road.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll confess that I do love it when I encounter an author that I know I will be still exploring some years from now.</p>
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		<title>By: Kerry</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ripley-under-ground-by-patricia-highsmith/#comment-5997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=4381#comment-5997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like Kim, I also have never inhaled Highsmith.  She actually sounds like an author who might be at the intersection of my and my significant other&#039;s literary tastes.  I haven&#039;t seen the movie, so have no qualms about starting with &lt;i&gt;The Talented Mr. Ripley&lt;/i&gt;.

I have really enjoyed the discussion above.  All the opinions make me want to read some Highsmith so I can have one too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Kim, I also have never inhaled Highsmith.  She actually sounds like an author who might be at the intersection of my and my significant other&#8217;s literary tastes.  I haven&#8217;t seen the movie, so have no qualms about starting with <i>The Talented Mr. Ripley</i>.</p>
<p>I have really enjoyed the discussion above.  All the opinions make me want to read some Highsmith so I can have one too.</p>
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