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	<title>Comments on: KfC&#8217;s shortlist for the 2010 Man Booker</title>
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	<description>This blogger would have fit right in with the old Park Plaza rooftop bar crowd -- H. Hood</description>
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		<title>By: Max Cairnduff</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Cairnduff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 16:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I probably was being harsh.  The comments just struck me as wrong headed.  That said, the list itself isn&#039;t too bad and the shortlist (although one could quibble with an entry here or there) is fairly solid.

So judged on their judging they&#039;re not doing too badly.  I&#039;m still backing the Galgut for the win but we&#039;ll see what happens.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I probably was being harsh.  The comments just struck me as wrong headed.  That said, the list itself isn&#8217;t too bad and the shortlist (although one could quibble with an entry here or there) is fairly solid.</p>
<p>So judged on their judging they&#8217;re not doing too badly.  I&#8217;m still backing the Galgut for the win but we&#8217;ll see what happens.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4527</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Max:  I feel rather sorry for Motion -- as part of his brief to the Booker, he needs to take advantage of these media opportunities.  Yet, serious critics take entire books (more than one) to develop and explain their criteria for what a &quot;great&quot; book is.  But he has to do it in under 1,000 words.

I&#039;d prefer to read the mini-check list as a menu of possibilities, rather than a set of requirements.  As in, historical sense would be a strength (I&#039;d say &lt;em&gt;The Long Song&lt;/em&gt; meets that criteria) but not a requirement (Galgut doesn&#039;t have much history to it).  That&#039;s perhaps a little kinder than he deserves, but I don&#039;t know how I would go about explaining the collective criteria developed by five readers.

Whatever their criteria, I do think this year&#039;s Booker jury did have a positive bias towards established writers, with a subset bias against those it perceived as overhyped (MacEwan, Amis, then Mitchell when it came to the shortlist).  No first novelists (the Giller jury found seven on a list of 13 -- probably because two of the three jurors are authors who I think are more inclined to recognize the debut writer).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max:  I feel rather sorry for Motion &#8212; as part of his brief to the Booker, he needs to take advantage of these media opportunities.  Yet, serious critics take entire books (more than one) to develop and explain their criteria for what a &#8220;great&#8221; book is.  But he has to do it in under 1,000 words.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d prefer to read the mini-check list as a menu of possibilities, rather than a set of requirements.  As in, historical sense would be a strength (I&#8217;d say <em>The Long Song</em> meets that criteria) but not a requirement (Galgut doesn&#8217;t have much history to it).  That&#8217;s perhaps a little kinder than he deserves, but I don&#8217;t know how I would go about explaining the collective criteria developed by five readers.</p>
<p>Whatever their criteria, I do think this year&#8217;s Booker jury did have a positive bias towards established writers, with a subset bias against those it perceived as overhyped (MacEwan, Amis, then Mitchell when it came to the shortlist).  No first novelists (the Giller jury found seven on a list of 13 &#8212; probably because two of the three jurors are authors who I think are more inclined to recognize the debut writer).</p>
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		<title>By: Max Cairnduff</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4519</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Cairnduff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4519</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s an interesting article here:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/sep/11/booker-prize-andrew-motion-judging where Motion comments on the judges&#039; criteria.

This paragraph stood out:

&quot;So what did we set out to be, if not popular? Open-minded. That&#039;s to say, we had no preconceived wish to reward particular styles, or genres, or themes, or individuals. We wanted to find books that seemed &quot;the best&quot;, and to base our decisions on what we found in front of our eyes. And how would I characterise this &quot;best&quot;? By all the means that sound familiar, but make their material strange. Good writing (adventurous as well as scrupulous). Imaginative daring (confirming what we feel might be true about the world, by means that are surprising). Historical sense (an ability to see the present in the past, and vice versa, so as to illuminate both).&quot;

I thought it interesting, and a little troubling.  Is it good writing to confirm what we feel might be true?  Isn&#039;t that just saying he&#039;s looking for books that confirm his preconceptions?  That great books are books which are at a fundamental level comforting?  What about books that challenge us?  That undermine what we believe to be true?

I also wholly fail to see the relevance of historical sense as a requirement.  That can certainly be a strength for a book, but I don&#039;t think it deserves anything like that importance.

It seemed very middlebrow to me as a set of criteria, which makes it interesting given that the shortlist does as others have mentioned contain at least three very strong books.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an interesting article here:  <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/sep/11/booker-prize-andrew-motion-judging" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/sep/11/booker-prize-andrew-motion-judging</a> where Motion comments on the judges&#8217; criteria.</p>
<p>This paragraph stood out:</p>
<p>&#8220;So what did we set out to be, if not popular? Open-minded. That&#8217;s to say, we had no preconceived wish to reward particular styles, or genres, or themes, or individuals. We wanted to find books that seemed &#8220;the best&#8221;, and to base our decisions on what we found in front of our eyes. And how would I characterise this &#8220;best&#8221;? By all the means that sound familiar, but make their material strange. Good writing (adventurous as well as scrupulous). Imaginative daring (confirming what we feel might be true about the world, by means that are surprising). Historical sense (an ability to see the present in the past, and vice versa, so as to illuminate both).&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought it interesting, and a little troubling.  Is it good writing to confirm what we feel might be true?  Isn&#8217;t that just saying he&#8217;s looking for books that confirm his preconceptions?  That great books are books which are at a fundamental level comforting?  What about books that challenge us?  That undermine what we believe to be true?</p>
<p>I also wholly fail to see the relevance of historical sense as a requirement.  That can certainly be a strength for a book, but I don&#8217;t think it deserves anything like that importance.</p>
<p>It seemed very middlebrow to me as a set of criteria, which makes it interesting given that the shortlist does as others have mentioned contain at least three very strong books.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[maggie:  Whatever shortcomings I might find in the shortlisted books, I must admit that telling in the present tense is a criticism that had not even crossed my mind.  In fact, I would have had to go back and look at the books to be able to say what tense they were told in, if the Telegraph article hadn&#039;t told me.  I suspect the issue means a lot more to an author than it does to a reader.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maggie:  Whatever shortcomings I might find in the shortlisted books, I must admit that telling in the present tense is a criticism that had not even crossed my mind.  In fact, I would have had to go back and look at the books to be able to say what tense they were told in, if the Telegraph article hadn&#8217;t told me.  I suspect the issue means a lot more to an author than it does to a reader.</p>
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		<title>By: maggie</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maggie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting article in the Telegraph - Pullman criticises the Booker shortlist for having too many novels on there told in the present tense!!
I tend to agree with Motion&#039;s comments in defense of the list.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/7994914/Philip-Pullman-and-Philip-Hensher-criticise-Booker-Prize-for-including-present-tense-novels.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article in the Telegraph &#8211; Pullman criticises the Booker shortlist for having too many novels on there told in the present tense!!<br />
I tend to agree with Motion&#8217;s comments in defense of the list.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/7994914/Philip-Pullman-and-Philip-Hensher-criticise-Booker-Prize-for-including-present-tense-novels.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/7994914/Philip-Pullman-and-Philip-Hensher-criticise-Booker-Prize-for-including-present-tense-novels.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trevor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t mind the Carey as much as you, Kevin, but I certainly hope it doesn&#039;t win (and I don&#039;t think it will).

I find it interesting that neither you nor John finished the other&#039;s consolation choice!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mind the Carey as much as you, Kevin, but I certainly hope it doesn&#8217;t win (and I don&#8217;t think it will).</p>
<p>I find it interesting that neither you nor John finished the other&#8217;s consolation choice!</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I promised to re-attempt Jacobson and, after giving myself a few days for an attitude adjustment, I will.  As for a &quot;compromise&quot; choice, I would split the list differently than you do:  literary (Galgut, McCarthy, Jacobson); historical (Carey, Levy) and populist (Donoghue).  Under that scenario, the compromise choice comes from the historical and I think would be Levy.  The Carey is not a good book (and Booker juries seem not to like books about America unless they mock it) and he has already won twice.  Levy has been overlooked, her book is better and she would be a very presentable winner.

The only problem with that, of course, is that &lt;em&gt;The Long Song&lt;/em&gt; did not even make the Orange Prize shortlist this year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I promised to re-attempt Jacobson and, after giving myself a few days for an attitude adjustment, I will.  As for a &#8220;compromise&#8221; choice, I would split the list differently than you do:  literary (Galgut, McCarthy, Jacobson); historical (Carey, Levy) and populist (Donoghue).  Under that scenario, the compromise choice comes from the historical and I think would be Levy.  The Carey is not a good book (and Booker juries seem not to like books about America unless they mock it) and he has already won twice.  Levy has been overlooked, her book is better and she would be a very presentable winner.</p>
<p>The only problem with that, of course, is that <em>The Long Song</em> did not even make the Orange Prize shortlist this year.</p>
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		<title>By: John Self</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Self]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, you guessed four out of six correctly, Kevin (and your own choices matched three of the judges&#039;). The main issue, as with almost everyone who predicted the shortlist, was your inclusion of Mitchell and omission of Jacobson.

There is a strong case to be made for now saying that Jacobson could take the prize, if the judges are split between &#039;literary&#039; (McCarthy, Galgut, Carey) and &#039;issues&#039; (Room, Long Song). Could Jacobson be a compromise winner? And, more importantly, will you now be re-attempting it, Kevin?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you guessed four out of six correctly, Kevin (and your own choices matched three of the judges&#8217;). The main issue, as with almost everyone who predicted the shortlist, was your inclusion of Mitchell and omission of Jacobson.</p>
<p>There is a strong case to be made for now saying that Jacobson could take the prize, if the judges are split between &#8216;literary&#8217; (McCarthy, Galgut, Carey) and &#8216;issues&#8217; (Room, Long Song). Could Jacobson be a compromise winner? And, more importantly, will you now be re-attempting it, Kevin?</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jackie:  I do agree that Mitchell, Galgut and McCarthy are attracting positive attention across the spectrum of readers and bloggers who pay attention to the Booker (note that John Self and paddyjoe made the same point in a comment earlier).  If they are on the list tomorrow, the jury would appear to be thinking like the rest of us -- if they aren&#039;t, we have a fair bit of divergence.  It is also interesting that among we Booker watchers, there is a lot of divergence after those first three in completing the shortlist.  Which I would have to say is testimony to an &quot;interesting&quot; list that provokes some discussion.

As for &lt;em&gt;Trespass&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;The Long Song&lt;/em&gt;, I did not think either was perfect (that&#039;s true for every book on the list this year) but did find their strengths outweighed their weaknesses, for me at least.  I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the case for a lot of readers, however.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jackie:  I do agree that Mitchell, Galgut and McCarthy are attracting positive attention across the spectrum of readers and bloggers who pay attention to the Booker (note that John Self and paddyjoe made the same point in a comment earlier).  If they are on the list tomorrow, the jury would appear to be thinking like the rest of us &#8212; if they aren&#8217;t, we have a fair bit of divergence.  It is also interesting that among we Booker watchers, there is a lot of divergence after those first three in completing the shortlist.  Which I would have to say is testimony to an &#8220;interesting&#8221; list that provokes some discussion.</p>
<p>As for <em>Trespass</em> and <em>The Long Song</em>, I did not think either was perfect (that&#8217;s true for every book on the list this year) but did find their strengths outweighed their weaknesses, for me at least.  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the case for a lot of readers, however.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/kfcs-shortlist-for-the-2010-man-booker/#comment-4311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3585#comment-4311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leroy, John:  Thanks for the observations about longlist displays.  I think Leroy is right that some of the books that I find &quot;puzzling&quot; on the list probably are a contributing factor -- if only because the press runs were big enough (and the authors have a core group of fans) to make displays possible.  If you think about it, last summer it probably would have been difficult to round up enough copies of &lt;em&gt;Heliopolis, Not Untrue &amp; Not Unkind, Me Cheeta, The Wilderness and How To Paint A Dead Man&lt;em&gt; to do a proper display.  A hundred copies of &lt;em&gt;Wolf Hall&lt;/em&gt; surrounded by a single copy each of six other finalists (if even one could be found) would look strange.  So given that a stated purpose of the Booker is to sell more books (often overlooked in favor of the &quot;best book&quot; purpose), this year&#039;s jury probably deserves full credit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leroy, John:  Thanks for the observations about longlist displays.  I think Leroy is right that some of the books that I find &#8220;puzzling&#8221; on the list probably are a contributing factor &#8212; if only because the press runs were big enough (and the authors have a core group of fans) to make displays possible.  If you think about it, last summer it probably would have been difficult to round up enough copies of <em>Heliopolis, Not Untrue &amp; Not Unkind, Me Cheeta, The Wilderness and How To Paint A Dead Man</em><em> to do a proper display.  A hundred copies of </em><em>Wolf Hall</em> surrounded by a single copy each of six other finalists (if even one could be found) would look strange.  So given that a stated purpose of the Booker is to sell more books (often overlooked in favor of the &#8220;best book&#8221; purpose), this year&#8217;s jury probably deserves full credit.</p>
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