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	<title>Comments on: Parrot and Olivier in America, by Peter Carey</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/</link>
	<description>This blogger seems to like every Australian writer but me -- P. Carey</description>
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		<title>By: Enchanted Castle Alert &#38; Booker Finalist Reviews « Frisbee: A Book Journal</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3957</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Enchanted Castle Alert &#38; Booker Finalist Reviews « Frisbee: A Book Journal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to Kevin from Canada for reviews of both Rose Tremain&#8217;s Trespass and Peter Carey&#8217;s Parrot and Olivier in America. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Kevin from Canada for reviews of both Rose Tremain&#8217;s Trespass and Peter Carey&#8217;s Parrot and Olivier in America. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 15:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom C:  I think you might like this one better than I did.  You have a greater interest in books about history and I suspect you would find more than I did in the contrast between the European aristocrat and proletarian with the emerging America.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom C:  I think you might like this one better than I did.  You have a greater interest in books about history and I suspect you would find more than I did in the contrast between the European aristocrat and proletarian with the emerging America.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom C</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3914</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 06:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I usually enjoy Peter Carey&#039;s books but it sounds like this one is not his best.  I still think he&#039;g going to find it hard to improve on Oscar and Lucinda.  I am not reading all the Bookers this year but have read Mitchell and am bout to read The Finkler Question and The Slap.  Thank you for this interesting and useful review]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually enjoy Peter Carey&#8217;s books but it sounds like this one is not his best.  I still think he&#8217;g going to find it hard to improve on Oscar and Lucinda.  I am not reading all the Bookers this year but have read Mitchell and am bout to read The Finkler Question and The Slap.  Thank you for this interesting and useful review</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 20:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lija:  I certainly felt that Carey was more focused on creating a picture of the emerging young America than in developing Olivier and Parrot as characters (although he does do that as well, but I think they are meant more as representatives of their class, at sea in the New World).  While I also had some problems with David Mitchells &lt;em&gt;The Thousand Autumns of Jacob De Zoet&lt;/em&gt;, I think it is a better example of developing characters inside a historical context, rather than using them to illustrate it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lija:  I certainly felt that Carey was more focused on creating a picture of the emerging young America than in developing Olivier and Parrot as characters (although he does do that as well, but I think they are meant more as representatives of their class, at sea in the New World).  While I also had some problems with David Mitchells <em>The Thousand Autumns of Jacob De Zoet</em>, I think it is a better example of developing characters inside a historical context, rather than using them to illustrate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lija</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lija]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 19:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this helpful account. Like you, I&#039;m not a big historical fiction reader, but I do occasionally enjoy it – when I feel like the book manages to really bring the characters alive, not just use them as symbols for something else. And it doesn&#039;t sound like this book does that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this helpful account. Like you, I&#8217;m not a big historical fiction reader, but I do occasionally enjoy it – when I feel like the book manages to really bring the characters alive, not just use them as symbols for something else. And it doesn&#8217;t sound like this book does that.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3903</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tolmsted:  No need for an apology -- it was a thoughtful and well-reasoned explanation.  And I appreciate the clarification regarding the interview discussion (I couldn&#039;t access it) -- I probably did go overboard in my response.

While some of the observations about reviews being plot-oriented may be true, I think readers who want more do have other sources.  I&#039;d say about half the NY Times reviews (both daily and Sunday) do go beyond that.  And the New Yorker&#039;s longer pieces certainly do (and I wish there were more).  And certainly the New York Review of Books does.

I will also admit that there are lots of very good readers who revel in supplementary reading and that my grumpiness is more a reflection of personal taste than anything else.  

I think I will just avoid the Great American novel discussion, beyond stating that I do find quite a lot of good fiction is being written in the U.S. these days.  Maybe not THE great novel, but some very good ones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tolmsted:  No need for an apology &#8212; it was a thoughtful and well-reasoned explanation.  And I appreciate the clarification regarding the interview discussion (I couldn&#8217;t access it) &#8212; I probably did go overboard in my response.</p>
<p>While some of the observations about reviews being plot-oriented may be true, I think readers who want more do have other sources.  I&#8217;d say about half the NY Times reviews (both daily and Sunday) do go beyond that.  And the New Yorker&#8217;s longer pieces certainly do (and I wish there were more).  And certainly the New York Review of Books does.</p>
<p>I will also admit that there are lots of very good readers who revel in supplementary reading and that my grumpiness is more a reflection of personal taste than anything else.  </p>
<p>I think I will just avoid the Great American novel discussion, beyond stating that I do find quite a lot of good fiction is being written in the U.S. these days.  Maybe not THE great novel, but some very good ones.</p>
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		<title>By: tolmsted</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tolmsted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, I just realized how long that was.... sorry!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I just realized how long that was&#8230;. sorry!!!</p>
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		<title>By: tolmsted</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3901</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tolmsted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s what I get for trying to type up a quick comment at lunch.  I think I completely mis-represented the interview and author!  The great American novel comment was actually made by the interviewer, who was remarking that Parrot &amp; Olivier explores the complexity of being an American - i.e. the American identity - and how no one was writing those kinds of novels (which he refers to as the Great American novel) anymore.

As for the dumbing down of the reading public,  both the interviewer and Carey commented on it in general, not necessarily in relation to whether or not readers appreciate his book in particular.  Carey statement was that &quot;we seem to have come to understand that a novel is a plot synopsis and so you will forever find the reviewing of books in this country to be mostly occupied with plot synopsis - this happens and that happens, and then - as if somehow the story was art.  And that to retell the story was to understand the art&quot;.   I don&#039;t want to clog up your comments with the full quote, but I found it very interesting and not wholly wrong.

I agree with you that a book should stand on its own.  But I do enjoy sometimes exploring it outside of the cover flaps.  If the author has created an entire microcosm of words and plot that is fascinating and complex enough to want to take that extra step past just reading it and learn more?  I see supplementary reading to be a lot like discussing a book with a friend - you get to find out the things you miss or see what other people take away from it.  For example, I&#039;ve heard multiple authors say that sometimes a reader will approach them and point out something they hadn&#039;t intentionally put into the book, but which was completely obvious once it was pointed out.  I like that...  that there might be something in their own novel that even they didn&#039;t get the first go round.

Now I&#039;ve rambled on.  I hope I didn&#039;t offend, I agree completely that an author&#039;s explanation in defense of his/her book can be annoying and obnoxious.  But if it&#039;s more of a sharing, I actually do enjoy it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what I get for trying to type up a quick comment at lunch.  I think I completely mis-represented the interview and author!  The great American novel comment was actually made by the interviewer, who was remarking that Parrot &amp; Olivier explores the complexity of being an American &#8211; i.e. the American identity &#8211; and how no one was writing those kinds of novels (which he refers to as the Great American novel) anymore.</p>
<p>As for the dumbing down of the reading public,  both the interviewer and Carey commented on it in general, not necessarily in relation to whether or not readers appreciate his book in particular.  Carey statement was that &#8220;we seem to have come to understand that a novel is a plot synopsis and so you will forever find the reviewing of books in this country to be mostly occupied with plot synopsis &#8211; this happens and that happens, and then &#8211; as if somehow the story was art.  And that to retell the story was to understand the art&#8221;.   I don&#8217;t want to clog up your comments with the full quote, but I found it very interesting and not wholly wrong.</p>
<p>I agree with you that a book should stand on its own.  But I do enjoy sometimes exploring it outside of the cover flaps.  If the author has created an entire microcosm of words and plot that is fascinating and complex enough to want to take that extra step past just reading it and learn more?  I see supplementary reading to be a lot like discussing a book with a friend &#8211; you get to find out the things you miss or see what other people take away from it.  For example, I&#8217;ve heard multiple authors say that sometimes a reader will approach them and point out something they hadn&#8217;t intentionally put into the book, but which was completely obvious once it was pointed out.  I like that&#8230;  that there might be something in their own novel that even they didn&#8217;t get the first go round.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ve rambled on.  I hope I didn&#8217;t offend, I agree completely that an author&#8217;s explanation in defense of his/her book can be annoying and obnoxious.  But if it&#8217;s more of a sharing, I actually do enjoy it.</p>
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		<title>By: KevinfromCanada</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3898</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KevinfromCanada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tolmsted:  Thanks for the link -- and it raises an interesting point which I&#039;ll ramble on about for a bit if that is okay.

I don&#039;t do very much supplementary reading at all, particularly in the area of authors explaining what their book is about.  My reasoning is:  If it is not apparent in 400 pages of reading the novel, perhaps he should do the rewrite instead of me reading his explanations about how to read it?  If he can&#039;t make the point apparent in the published book that I have paid for, perhaps the failure is his, not the reader&#039;s?  My image is one that I take from an artist (sorry, can&#039;t remember who) who said:  &quot;When I put my signature on the painting, it exists in and of itself.  My work has been done.&quot;  By all means, let writers promote their work -- they are not allowed to tell readers how to read it.

I think Carey is grossly inflating the nature of his book if he is linking it to a critique on democracy.  There are far, far better treatises (indeed, better columns daily in the NY Times) on that subject than what is contained in this book.  It is a decently-written look at a period of American history, not much more.  As for ranking it with the &quot;great American novels&quot;, he is well, well back with this one.  And to download that onto the &quot;dumbing down of the reading public&quot; is, quite frankly, offensive.  I certainly make no reference to the &quot;dumbing down of the American author&quot; -- although I do think a case could be made regarding this book.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tolmsted:  Thanks for the link &#8212; and it raises an interesting point which I&#8217;ll ramble on about for a bit if that is okay.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t do very much supplementary reading at all, particularly in the area of authors explaining what their book is about.  My reasoning is:  If it is not apparent in 400 pages of reading the novel, perhaps he should do the rewrite instead of me reading his explanations about how to read it?  If he can&#8217;t make the point apparent in the published book that I have paid for, perhaps the failure is his, not the reader&#8217;s?  My image is one that I take from an artist (sorry, can&#8217;t remember who) who said:  &#8220;When I put my signature on the painting, it exists in and of itself.  My work has been done.&#8221;  By all means, let writers promote their work &#8212; they are not allowed to tell readers how to read it.</p>
<p>I think Carey is grossly inflating the nature of his book if he is linking it to a critique on democracy.  There are far, far better treatises (indeed, better columns daily in the NY Times) on that subject than what is contained in this book.  It is a decently-written look at a period of American history, not much more.  As for ranking it with the &#8220;great American novels&#8221;, he is well, well back with this one.  And to download that onto the &#8220;dumbing down of the reading public&#8221; is, quite frankly, offensive.  I certainly make no reference to the &#8220;dumbing down of the American author&#8221; &#8212; although I do think a case could be made regarding this book.</p>
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		<title>By: tolmsted</title>
		<link>http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/parrot-and-olivier-in-america-by-peter-carey/#comment-3897</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tolmsted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/?p=3392#comment-3897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin - 

I haven&#039;t read it yet, but actually had the novel in hand yesterday to buy (I ended up passing it up for David Mitchell).  I&#039;m not sure how much you like to supplement your readings, but Peter Carey just had an excellent interview on KCRW&#039;s Bookworm with Michael Silverblatt (I&#039;ll put the link at the end of my comment).  I&#039;ve had lukewarm feelings about Carey&#039;s novels as well - I never made it through Oscar &amp; Lucinda, but I did finish True History of the Kelly Gang &amp; His Illegal Self which weren&#039;t terrible (high praise, huh?).  He&#039;s an author I keep wanting to appreciate but never seem able to.  

I bring up the interview because Carey discusses Parrot &amp; Olivier as a critique on democracy.  And he seemed to lean more in the direction of sharing Olivier&#039;s fears than Parrot&#039;s hopes. They also discuss it being the kind of great American novel which is no longer being written and the dumbing down of the reading public (who are interested mainly in plot synopsis rather than the art of literature which Carey seemed to feel rested mainly in the prose).  Not having read the novel I&#039;d be interested in your thoughts. 

As always, thanks again for the review!

http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/bw/bw100722peter_carey]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8211; </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read it yet, but actually had the novel in hand yesterday to buy (I ended up passing it up for David Mitchell).  I&#8217;m not sure how much you like to supplement your readings, but Peter Carey just had an excellent interview on KCRW&#8217;s Bookworm with Michael Silverblatt (I&#8217;ll put the link at the end of my comment).  I&#8217;ve had lukewarm feelings about Carey&#8217;s novels as well &#8211; I never made it through Oscar &amp; Lucinda, but I did finish True History of the Kelly Gang &amp; His Illegal Self which weren&#8217;t terrible (high praise, huh?).  He&#8217;s an author I keep wanting to appreciate but never seem able to.  </p>
<p>I bring up the interview because Carey discusses Parrot &amp; Olivier as a critique on democracy.  And he seemed to lean more in the direction of sharing Olivier&#8217;s fears than Parrot&#8217;s hopes. They also discuss it being the kind of great American novel which is no longer being written and the dumbing down of the reading public (who are interested mainly in plot synopsis rather than the art of literature which Carey seemed to feel rested mainly in the prose).  Not having read the novel I&#8217;d be interested in your thoughts. </p>
<p>As always, thanks again for the review!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/bw/bw100722peter_carey" rel="nofollow">http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/bw/bw100722peter_carey</a></p>
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